Forum:Class Page Changes?

Well, as you all probably know, Disgaea 4 is out in the US. This has indirectly lead to this discussion (well, OK, the discussion in question is a bit down there. I should probably get to dividing that.) I'll get to the meat of what I want to discuss. Class pages and Class Tier Pages. Should we use fancy tabs and such to merge all the tiers into the parent pages? Should we keep going the way we have? I personally feel towards the later, what with specific skills/spells only certain tiers can learn, and different palette swaps for sprites/portraits/cut ins. As Yuan pointed out to me when I discussed this with her, the tier pages also have reincarnation costs, and some classes learn spells at different points than other tiers. (Such as Prism/Galaxy Mages learning magic spells at different levels than Red/Blue/Green/Star Mages learned those same spells.) I personally am greatly against merging the pages. I asked a discussion, so I am giving one, but I won't turn this into a vote for/against (attempts to do that on the other wiki I work on ended up with users coming from no where to vote one way, then leaving). Sorry if this isn't any good a first post at all.--Otherarrow 01:20, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing this is how you reply to to a forum. Anyway if anybody wants to compare here's the edit I made, compare to what we have now. It's missing a sprite and reincarnation cost, here's what it will look like with those two. Man, your really making a big deal out of this huh. do we really have to merge them together? can't I just do my template and put a link in the tier name. Anyway, the only legitimate reason to have a separate tier page is the Skull/Mage Spells and different palette swaps for portraits and cut ins. I don't think we ever used the different palette swaps for portraits and cut ins, at least no one has uploaded them. As for the Skull/Mage Spells I'm gonna have to think of how to deal with that. Other than that, I don't think we have problems merging them, at least for disgaea 4 and 3 and besides if you look at what we have now, the tier pages is full of red links, that speaks volume of why separate tier page is unneeded and how much of a hassle it is to edit.--Haru3173 03:58, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a difference in "articles that haven't been made" and "articles that won't be made". The reasons that most tier pages on the Disgaea 3 nav are red links is because no one has gone out of their way to start making them yet. That seems more a testament to the laziness/busyness of users who have access to that data (such as myself, admittingly) than the inherit wrongness in the system. After all, articles won't make themselves. And I am confused at your question. You are the one who suggested slapping that template on there and merging the pages in the first place. You even said it would make tier pages redundant. As for different portraits and cut ins, I've been planning on it for a bit, just don't have access to the needed images for upload.--Otherarrow 12:26, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing this is just a misunderstanding. I never suggested merging the pages, I just stated my opinion that I find the tier pages redundant. So why are we debating about merging pages exactly? you obviously have a very high opinion for the tier pages, while I just want that stat and skill information in one nice page. so why not just do the template with link to separate tier page?--Haru3173 03:24, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is looking like a misunderstanding. Heck, if we can work the template right, we can have the stats on the template, but have them go to the tier page for stuff like reincarnation cost or, in the case of spells, learnable moves and that sorta thing? It might be hard to try and cram all of that stuff in one tab, you know?--Otherarrow 14:37, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, so I got the green-light to do the template right? in case you want to see here's what it will look like for the bouncer. I'll probably leave the reincarnation table for the tier page but it's easy to add them if anybody wants to. Also if anybody can think of some improvement, just tell me.--Haru3173 06:00, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

I don't mind the redesign as well. I like all the information in one page and it is less hassle to edit them. Also, in Disgaea 4, they remove level requirements for spells. Only unique class skills have level requirements. I was able to learn a Terra spell at level one without inheritance(I used Mana leech Evil Symbol to test it out). I'm pretty Disgaea 3 use the same mechanics as well. Both games share a lot of same mechanics. When I check my Doublejump guide I don't see level requirements for spells. I don't think the class page will work for unique characters because of change in mechanics. Laharl, Etna, Flonne, and Asagi will make countless cameo appearance from Cross Edge to Phantom Brave or Cladun. You'll probably have like over 15 tabs with them in the near future, which also means 15 different mechanics. Regular classes are easier to handle since they're constant within that game mechanics.

I wonder would the mages would benefit a tier table similar to weapon table? Spells like wind, fire, ice, star, and heal have tier levels. The problem is buffs, debuffs, espoir, and status ailments don't have tiers and different class can only learn a specific spell. Fatbeer 08:24, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * We aren't making class pages for Cross Edge, Phantom Brave or the like. Also, no one said this would apply to "unique" characters at all, since they don't come in tiers. Certain classes can only learn so far up the movelist before having to reincarnate (although I guess this is covered by your "weapon affinity" thing). As for mages/skulls, making a template within a template would just look kinda sloppy, not to mention that individual tiers learn magic at different rates. (For example, in Disgaea 1, Star Mages learn their magic tiers at higher levels than their "Color" counterparts, and the higher level of mages learn them at different points as well). I think you don't realize that this change doesn't just effect Disgaea 3 and 4 classes. This change would also affect Disgaea 1 and 2 classes as well. (Not to mention those don't have the "Oh those are all red links" excuse)--Otherarrow 12:26, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

No to the merging. I like the new tabbed approach, though; but does that involve merging? I dunno, don't mind me, I'm just the underpaid noob who does D4 work. -- Silver Crono  00:05, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking about the big picture for that design since it's customizable. You can squeeze all the special characters information in one such as Laharl, but the different mechanics in each series won't make it work. I thought the design was for Disgaea 3 and 4 since the mechanics are far different from Disgaea 1 and 2 unless you want one unified design, so you have some sort of constancy in the design. You might have to squeeze in a spell section for each tab since each mage learn at a different level. I'm not sure how useful this addtional information when it comes to other monsters or humanoid characters. I haven't played Disgaea 1 and 2 since release date for both games. I never played the remakes. The same goes for Phantom Brave, Soul Nomad, Makai Kingdom, Trinity Universe, Cladun or NIS related games, I used to know a lot of information about those games near release date, but I forgot them as time pass by. Fatbeer 07:45, September 28, 2011 (UTC) Hi, I sort of skimmed through this so correct me if I'm wrong about what I understood but I for one do not think we need tier pages as they are very redundant and personally i think they are a waste of time. I much prefer the way that Haru made the tab design and how we had all tiers listed in the table. Also Mages and Skulls dont matter as they learn Tera spells at level one (I left my test on the mage talk page a while back but i forgot to sign it). Also do tiers affect skills at all (Excluding Star Mages). Blingdadada (talk) 01:27, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think you understand. Games that aren't Disgaea are only getting partial coverage. No class pages, no pages for characters who don't appear in Disgaea. Also, I assumed that a similar template would be wiped up for D1/2, since having a "feature" for only half the classes seems rather odd to me. Sorry for any mix-up.--Otherarrow 14:37, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok. The wiki name is Disgaea after all. It would be weird to do all full on coverage for other games. Who knows how many cameo apperances these Disgaea characters might appear. You have to draw the line somewhere. Oh well, less work for me! Once you guys figure out a design, I'm ready to edit for either Disgaea 3-4 class pages. Most of Disgaea 3 character information will come from a guide since I no longer have the game anymore. Fatbeer 06:27, September 29, 2011 (UTC)